ibotlog2html for #crosstool-ng

<< Previous 2014-01-22 Next >>

# 00:53:17 sh4rm4 quits : Ping timeout: 252 seconds
# 01:02:19 sh4rm4 joins #crosstool-ng
# 02:33:38 mingwandroid quits : Remote host closed the connection
# 03:02:09 memleak hi everyone
# 03:02:32 memleak channel is a bit quiet just thought i'd be polite and welcome everyone, newcomers, veterans, devs, etc
# 03:11:41 djerome joins #crosstool-ng
# 04:08:58 djerome quits : Remote host closed the connection
# 05:55:52 memleak good night everyone!!!!!!!!!!
# 08:05:02 aalv joins #crosstool-ng
# 08:05:25 diorcety quits : Quit: Leaving.
# 10:11:48 hrubi quits : Ping timeout: 245 seconds
# 10:58:36 Net147 joins #crosstool-ng
# 12:13:31 mingwandroid joins #crosstool-ng
# 12:19:07 mingwandroid hey guys.
# 12:19:28 mingwandroid I got a problem using ctng to make 'native' compilers ..
# 12:20:01 mingwandroid so it 'installs' binutils into buildtools - really replaces the old wrapper scripts with symlinks ..
# 12:20:55 mingwandroid .. but then when it's configuring for building libc start files, well, e.g. the built ld gets used but it's no good as e.g. crt1.o isn't built yet.
# 13:05:08 loide quits : Quit: Saindo
# 13:24:50 loide joins #crosstool-ng
# 13:50:55 sh4rm4 quits : Remote host closed the connection
# 13:51:23 sh4rm4 joins #crosstool-ng
# 14:00:42 mnt_real joins #crosstool-ng
# 14:12:16 Net147 quits : Quit: Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-
# 16:10:19 doc2 joins #crosstool-ng
# 16:41:18 aalv parts #crosstool-ng
# 16:54:32 memleak hello mingwandroid! i believe native and canadian builds are unstable (new features, haven't been worked on much) i'd stick around and wait for y_morin he'll be able to help.
# 16:55:49 mingwandroid memleak: ok thanks, I cant see why its determining that I'm not native ATM.
# 16:55:56 memleak i don't believe many people use ct-ng for native builds (maybe they all do it by hand like me?) so you'll have to wait for someone with more experience with ct-ng to assist. sorry about that.
# 16:56:46 memleak speaking of which i'm compiling the gcc 4.7 branch from git to use as my system wide compiler.
# 17:03:42 y_morin joins #crosstool-ng
# 17:04:03 memleak there he is! mingwandroid shoot!
# 17:04:26 y_morin hides...
# 17:39:06 mingwandroid heh.
# 17:39:42 mingwandroid y_morin: so I'm helping out on some Windows hosted/built, Linux targeting cross compilers for someone.
# 17:42:19 fauno quits : Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2
# 17:42:44 fauno joins #crosstool-ng
# 17:44:52 mingwandroid and I want to do a comparision with Linux hosted/built, Linux targetting native compilers ..
# 17:45:04 mingwandroid but ctng seems to always think it's CT_CROSS?!
# 17:45:22 mingwandroid despite my sample having CT_NATIVE=y and CT_TOOLCHAIN_TYPE="native"
# 18:07:43 y_morin mingwandroid: Building a native toolchain is not supported in ct-ng.
# 18:08:57 y_morin mingwandroid: A native toolchain is one without a sysroot. In such a toolchain, gcc (and ld) will search in /usr/include (and /lib and /usr/lib), without prefixing those locations with the sysroot path.
# 18:09:19 y_morin mingwandroid: This is a bit complex to set up, so crostool-NG does not support that (for now?)
# 18:10:01 mingwandroid y_morin: yeah, I just can't figure out where the config stuff is determining it not to be native is all, I'd be prepared to try to make the rest work if I can get over this initial hump.
# 18:12:00 y_morin mingwandroid: I don;t want to discourage you, but that's gonna bea quite a bit of work.
# 18:12:16 y_morin mingwandroid: We'd first need to differentiate the build-time sysroot from the runtime sysroot
# 18:12:47 y_morin mingwandroid: Then, we need to diferentiate between PREFIX_DIR and DEST_DIR
# 18:12:55 y_morin And this is quite a bit of work.
# 18:14:34 mingwandroid y_morin: ok, I'll mull this over some more then. I got a fair few things on my plate ATM.
# 18:16:47 mingwandroid y_morin: thanks for the help though.
# 18:17:45 y_morin mingwandroid: Cheers! I know what it is to be over-booked! ;-)
# 18:30:49 fauno quits : Ping timeout: 272 seconds
# 18:55:52 mingwandroid quits : Remote host closed the connection
# 19:01:40 diorcety joins #crosstool-ng
# 19:42:51 mingwandroid joins #crosstool-ng
# 19:56:13 smartin_ joins #crosstool-ng
# 20:05:52 smartin quits : Ping timeout: 246 seconds
# 20:06:04 memleak hey y_morin im kind of a hardcore basher, maybe i can help you with the native toolchain build?
# 20:09:43 y_morin memleak: Hello! Thanks for propsing your help!
# 20:10:14 smartin joins #crosstool-ng
# 20:10:22 y_morin memleak: the problem is not much about bash itself (I to am quite a jard-core basher), but rather with how to configure gcc/binutils/glibc/... to suport native compilation.
# 20:15:44 memleak ct-ng native assumes you have an already working compiler, right?
# 20:17:07 memleak rather want to update or install over your existing toolchain? or is it sort of like cross compilation where it puts it in an x-tools directory as opposed to putting it in /usr
# 20:17:26 y_morin memleak: It currently assumes nothing, this there is no code to support native! :-]
# 20:17:51 y_morin memleak: The difference between a cross and a native is:
# 20:18:16 y_morin memleak: cross will look in sysroot (and is relocatable), so we can install the sysroot wherever we want.
# 20:18:37 y_morin memleak: native does not use a sysroot, and will always look in /usr/inluce and /lib and /usr/lib
# 20:18:51 memleak so native needs root permissions
# 20:18:53 y_morin memleak: so because native does not have a sysroot, we have to fake one at build-time
# 20:19:10 memleak ohh i see i see
# 20:19:13 y_morin memleak: No, we do want to avoid root-access! We do not want to override the system's includes and libs!
# 20:19:23 y_morin Yep.
# 20:19:46 memleak do we want to override the systems compiler?
# 20:19:49 y_morin memleak: Also, since cros is completely relocatable, it does not matter where we install it.
# 20:19:59 y_morin memleak: I meant: overwrite.
# 20:20:36 memleak does the system that wants to build native supposed to have a compiler already there or do we supply pre-built binaries?
# 20:21:14 y_morin memleak: If we wanted a cros that runs off /opt/foo/bar (but that requires root access), we can still build it and install it in ${HOME}/buz and have root just copy everything after the fact to /opt/foo/bar
# 20:21:39 y_morin memleak: crosstool-NG already has support for building the required cros-compiler if needed.
# 20:21:49 y_morin memleak: that's used for canadian-cros, for now.
# 20:23:18 y_morin memleak: Oh, BTW, we must not confuse "native" and "cross-native".
# 20:23:51 memleak ohh
# 20:24:08 y_morin memleak: "native" is about a toolchain that targets the current system, and expects to run on that sane system. This almost irrealist.
# 20:24:41 y_morin memleak: OTOH, a "cros-native" is a cros-compiled native toolchain, that expects to run on the target.
# 20:24:49 y_morin memleak: Which one were you referring too?
# 20:25:25 memleak native-native
# 20:26:47 y_morin memleak: Plain "native" is not something I am interested to have syupport for in crostool-NG, because it does nto really makes sense: if your system is glibc-based, but you build a uClibc-based toolchain, then this is not a native toolchain, since it is a different ABI.
# 20:27:02 memleak ah ok
# 20:27:21 y_morin memleak: plain "native" is really confusing. What you really want in fact, is a cross.
# 20:27:43 memleak yeah i'd imagine heh thats why i asked about it
# 20:28:36 y_morin memleak: Even if your target the same _physical_ machine, you still want a cross. IF you want to also target the running system, then native will not help you. Most of the time, you may get along, but quite a few times it'll break hard.
# 20:30:45 y_morin memleak: For example, your system is running (eg.) glibc-2.16. If you build a toolchain based on glibc-2.18, the programs built with this toolchain will not work on your running system sicne your glibc is older than the toolchain's glibc.
# 20:30:45 y_morin memleak: You may get along by replacing your running glibc with the one from the toolchain, but your isk breaking your current system.
# 20:31:34 y_morin (What... Did I even think about doing this at all? Bwah, I'm going for penance...)
# 21:05:38 alan_o joins #crosstool-ng
# 21:08:30 memleak sorry about that y_morin i got distracted
# 21:08:35 memleak i agree with you on all points though
# 21:09:45 y_morin memleak: No problem! Getting distracted by real life is good! :-)
# 21:23:26 memleak i just had a few energy drinks a cup of coffee i feel really hyper finally
# 21:23:28 memleak like RAWWWWWWWWWWWW
# 21:49:43 bhundven y_morin: while working at WG, when I was working on static toolchain, we also thought about implementing native toolchain support.
# 21:50:16 bhundven it's not worth it. You can make a toolchain for your native architecture that is relocatable and static.
# 21:50:37 bhundven but it's not something i'd build debian packages with
# 21:52:50 bhundven y_morin: but doesn't buildroot make a native toolchain for the target "board"?
# 21:53:58 y_morin bhundven: No, we dropped it some time ago.
# 21:54:22 y_morin bhundven: Buildroot has gone to be only a cross-compilation tool (which I agree with).
# 21:54:41 bhundven bsp
# 21:54:44 y_morin bhundven: Toolchain on the target is not really suited to Buildroot, since we mostly target "small" systems
# 21:54:58 y_morin bhundven: Somewhere between BSP and SDK, yes.
# 21:55:44 y_morin bhundven: EVen if the target is /technically/ capable of running a compiler, that's not something we see as fit for Buildroot.
# 21:55:48 bhundven well, lots of microprocessor/microcontroller manufacturers use buildroot or yocto in their bsp/sdk's
# 21:56:39 y_morin bhundven: Yet, Yocto is more like a "ditribution generator", than a "root filesystem generator".
# 21:56:42 bhundven wish they'd contribute back
# 21:57:08 y_morin bhundven: Buildroot tries to follow what its name says: build a root file system.
# 21:57:20 y_morin bhundven: Some of them do contribute quite a bit! :-)
# 21:57:25 bhundven yup. I can agree with that
# 21:57:43 bhundven oh yea, freescale and blackfin
# 21:58:25 y_morin bhundven: That's a mean for Buildroot to differntiate itself from the others. Besides, we do not have the manpower or the ressources of the LiFo (Yocto is sponsored by the LiFo, and they do have quite some money!).
# 21:58:41 bhundven hehe, yea that's true.
# 21:58:47 smartin_ thinks about copy-pasting what y_morin says in the buildroot doc...
# 21:58:56 bhundven :D
# 21:59:03 y_morin smartin: Feel free to do so! ;-)
# 21:59:13 bhundven points at the ibot-logs in the /topic
# 21:59:23 y_morin smartin: However, we already have something along those lines in the manual.
# 21:59:28 y_morin bhundven: :-)
# 21:59:46 bhundven hehe, that's what I call documentation
# 21:59:52 y_morin smartin: http://nightly.buildroot.org/#faq-no-compiler-on-target
# 22:00:01 y_morin snBut I gues you know that part, don;t you?
# 22:01:18 smartin_ y_morin: yeah, i wrote it a long time ago :D
# 22:01:21 bhundven it's crazy how much work you guys have put into that project, as just the few of you.
# 22:01:58 bhundven one of the higher volume ml in my inbox
# 22:02:41 y_morin bhundven: Then you're surely not subscribed to LKML! :-p
# 22:03:16 bhundven haha
# 22:03:21 bhundven I was at one point
# 22:04:12 bhundven yea, I was so happy to unsubscribe
# 22:04:28 y_morin :-)
# 22:05:00 bhundven I'm subscribed to the homebrew pcb mailing list
# 22:05:21 bhundven but, it's on another email account that I don't really watch much
# 22:06:58 memleak quits : Ping timeout: 246 seconds
# 22:06:59 bhundven https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Homebrew_PCBs/info
# 22:09:53 y_morin is contemplating getting a 3D printer... But really has no idea what printer to get...
# 22:15:44 doc2 quits : Remote host closed the connection
# 22:19:58 memleak joins #crosstool-ng
# 22:43:47 diorcety1 joins #crosstool-ng
# 22:46:28 diorcety quits : Ping timeout: 252 seconds
# 23:08:03 diorcety1 quits : Read error: Connection reset by peer
# 23:08:27 diorcety joins #crosstool-ng
# 23:12:18 y_morin quits : Quit: Nighty Night!
# 23:25:27 smartin_ quits : Quit: good night

Generated by ibotlog2html by Yann E. MORIN