| # 00:00:43 | S0-2 | At a later point, it complains that termcap library not found, even though I installed it. |
| # 00:02:58 | S0-2 | readelf -Ws /usr/lib/libtermcap.so | grep tgetent |
| # 00:02:59 | S0-2 | 34: 00000000000010c8 993 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT 11 tgetent |
| # 00:03:20 | S0-2 | and yet |
| # 00:03:23 | S0-2 | [ALL ] checking for library containing tgetent... no |
| # 00:03:25 | S0-2 | [ERROR] configure: error: no termcap library found |
| # 00:03:53 | y_morin | quits : Quit: leaving |
| # 00:20:14 | S0-2 | Anyone? I have ncurses and termcap installed. |
| # 00:24:48 | S0-2 | Also, cross-gdb's config.log ends with configure: exit 0 |
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| # 20:14:27 | Martell | Hey y_morin |
| # 20:20:39 | Martell | Hey guys does anyone know how to add a new arch? |
| # 20:21:05 | Martell | as in CT_ARCH_targetarch |
| # 20:21:11 | Martell | in my case CT_ARCH_spu |
| # 20:24:15 | doc2 | quits : Remote host closed the connection |
| # 20:40:51 | y_morin | Martell: Look in config/arch/ for examples. |
| # 20:41:29 | y_morin | Martell: Also, look at: "docs/8 - Internals.txt" |
| # 20:42:13 | y_morin | Although that part of the doc is not really up-to-date. |
| # 20:42:17 | y_morin | :-( |
| # 20:42:38 | memleak | Martell, what arch are you going to be adding? jw |
| # 20:43:12 | y_morin | Martell: 'spu' <-- what architecture is that? |
| # 20:44:02 | y_morin | Oh, the Cell CPU in the PlayStation? |
| # 20:45:10 | Martell | yup just the spu |
| # 20:45:24 | Martell | its the cell processor |
| # 20:45:28 | memleak | ps3 doesnt have otheros feature anymore though.. |
| # 20:45:55 | Martell | I'm trying to create a file in config/arch |
| # 20:46:00 | Martell | to match it |
| # 20:46:32 | Martell | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_%28microprocessor%29#Synergistic_Processing_Elements_.28SPE.29 |
| # 20:46:48 | Martell | Synergistic_Processing_Element is the exact name |
| # 20:47:07 | Martell | memleak: there are many custom firmwares with otheros available |
| # 20:47:22 | Martell | there is even a linux distro still being updated for it |
| # 20:47:48 | Martell | http://sourceforge.net/projects/redribbon/ |
| # 20:49:55 | Martell | y_morin: I successfully built the powerpc64 toolchain with the PS3 specifics on ct-ng |
| # 20:50:23 | Martell | so now I just need the spu to have a full 4.8 chain that should be better than the homebrew chains out there |
| # 21:06:30 | memleak | heh what do those noobs use? codesourcery and shit? |
| # 21:16:24 | Martell | no they still use gcc |
| # 21:16:37 | Martell | but the versions are 3.x |
| # 21:16:41 | Martell | or 4.3 etc |
| # 21:17:02 | Martell | 4.8 is a major jump ;) |
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| # 22:41:38 | memleak | at this point i'd wait for 4.8.3 before building a ton of stuff with it |
| # 22:43:56 | ovf | ibm dumped cell, right? |
| # 22:51:23 | memleak | yes |
| # 22:51:47 | memleak | if it wasn't, PS4 would have it |
| # 22:51:50 | memleak | :P |
| # 22:54:59 | ovf | i kind of liked it (and the promotional free access to ibm qs22) |
| # 23:01:01 | memleak | i liked the cell too |
| # 23:01:11 | memleak | thing was a beast |
| # 23:01:49 | memleak | still kinda is..... i mean the SPE can actually access GDDR5 memory, normally CPUs cannot access VRAM |
| # 23:02:02 | memleak | rather only SDRAM |
| # 23:02:48 | memleak | how they integrated the memory controller and all that stuff is just fascinating, plus it being an 8 core isn't bad either to say the least |
| # 23:03:19 | memleak | the GPU on the other hand is another story, that's actually outdated... |
| # 23:06:34 | ovf | the amd thing on this year's consoles also talks to gddr5 i think? |
| # 23:07:08 | memleak | well besides those two of course |
| # 23:07:20 | ovf | (anyone running custom code on them yet?) |
| # 23:07:40 | memleak | no |
| # 23:07:57 | memleak | well xbox one doesnt even use GDDR5 |
| # 23:08:01 | memleak | i dont keep up with xbox at all |
| # 23:08:02 | memleak | fuck microsoft |
| # 23:08:52 | memleak | PS4 has 8GB GDDR5 dedicated + 2GB DDR3 for swap or some shit |
| # 23:09:06 | ovf | well, even if i get to run my code on ps4, there isn't much i could do with 8gb |
| # 23:09:31 | memleak | sony wont say exactly what the 2GB is for but hackers claim to have the answer |
| # 23:09:37 | memleak | as always... elitists... |
| # 23:10:46 | ovf | ddr3 is like a hard drive these days, cheap and everywhere |
| # 23:10:53 | memleak | indeed |
| # 23:10:57 | memleak | thats why i run 32GB |
| # 23:11:05 | ovf | i think my consumer grade ssd comes with a bunch built-in |
| # 23:11:31 | memleak | how long are the latest SSDs lasting now? |
| # 23:11:39 | memleak | i remember at first the flash kept wearing out |
| # 23:11:55 | memleak | still pieces of garbage or are they reliable? |
| # 23:12:35 | ovf | don't know, i don't do any server hardware stuff |
| # 23:12:38 | y_morin | memleak: I've been using a Samsung 840 Pro 128GiB for more than a year, mounted on my development dir, without issues. |
| # 23:12:45 | ovf | but i think they solved the wear... with software |
| # 23:13:21 | memleak | software as in drivers, or software as in built in (firmware) |
| # 23:13:23 | y_morin | memleak: As report by smarctl, it is only 3% weared out. |
| # 23:13:30 | ovf | firmware |
| # 23:13:31 | y_morin | memleak: firmware, not drivers. |
| # 23:13:35 | memleak | ah thats good! |
| # 23:13:58 | y_morin | memleak: No, that's not good: we can't audit firmware, and we cant fix it, and we can't enhance it. |
| # 23:14:29 | memleak | well yes but drivers suck up CPU resources and whatnot, it shouldnt be in userspace, not for a hard drive anyway. |
| # 23:14:41 | ovf | well, yes, that's a mixed blessing. but at least i can just implement the basic sata stuff and have decent storage in my os |
| # 23:14:58 | y_morin | memleak: I prefer to trade a few CPU cycles for that. |
| # 23:15:01 | memleak | and there is really a percentage meter in the SMART data telling you how broken your drive is? |
| # 23:15:19 | y_morin | memleak: yes, it is reported in the SMART info. |
| # 23:15:24 | memleak | wow thats sad. |
| # 23:15:51 | memleak | that you need a meter for such a thing |
| # 23:15:51 | ovf | y_morin: by the way the samsung 840 is funny business. bigger models (256gb+) come with built-in raid0 |
| # 23:16:16 | y_morin | memleak: Why? It's pretty important to know when the drive is getting weared out so one can replace it. |
| # 23:16:37 | ovf | i think memleak wants things to work forever |
| # 23:16:38 | memleak | "just so you know, you're drive is this much worn out! when you decide enough is enough, buy a new SSD" |
| # 23:16:52 | y_morin | ovf: I gues all models come with some kind of "RAID" in it: they are parallelising the acces to the flash anyway. |
| # 23:17:11 | y_morin | *access |
| # 23:17:22 | ovf | they claim something like 1.5x speed increase starting with 256gb model |
| # 23:17:52 | y_morin | ovf, now, that the 256 is just two 128 side-by-side I don't care much, as long as it appears asa single drive to the OS. |
| # 23:18:25 | memleak | my non-SSD drive lasted me 15 years.. |
| # 23:18:40 | memleak | and im totally happy with that |
| # 23:18:50 | y_morin | ovf: My 128GiB one gives me roughly 540MiB per second, which is close to the maximum bandwidth SATA3 can give. |
| # 23:19:00 | memleak | woah thats fast... |
| # 23:19:17 | memleak | would you two advise to buy an SSD or no? |
| # 23:19:22 | y_morin | memleak: SSD power, yes. And it sucks about 480MiB per second when writing. |
| # 23:19:40 | y_morin | memleak: I am *very* happy with the Samsung 840 Pro. |
| # 23:20:07 | y_morin | memleak: I got it for ~120⬠last years, it is now around 115â¬. |
| # 23:20:27 | ovf | y_morin: huh, how do you measure? :-) |
| # 23:20:30 | y_morin | memleak: So if you have the bucks, it is a very good investment. |
| # 23:20:51 | ovf | yes, at least for consumer stuff you really aren't losing anything going to ssd |
| # 23:20:56 | ovf | 'cept money |
| # 23:21:12 | y_morin | ovf: that's linear transfer: dd if=/dev/sdb bs=1048576 >/dev/null |
| # 23:21:23 | y_morin | ovf: and get the results from dd. |
| # 23:21:44 | memleak | oooo.. a pci express SSD drive... |
| # 23:21:52 | ovf | and also in non-cost-sensitive business areas people generally say "forget hdd" |
| # 23:21:52 | y_morin | ovf: random transfers of "small" files is a bit slower, but still much, much faster than spiniing rust. |
| # 23:21:58 | memleak | kinda expensive.. 4,000 for an 800GB |
| # 23:22:45 | ovf | y_morin: ah yes, dd gets me 548gb/s |
| # 23:23:00 | ovf | er, mb/s |
| # 23:23:28 | ovf | let's reassert the gb/s version in 10 years |
| # 23:23:54 | y_morin | memleak: There's an OCZ RevoDrive 960GiB, pci-express 4x, for ~1400⬠|
| # 23:24:26 | y_morin | memleak: but otherwise, the SATA3 Samsung 840 Pro is just SSD-gold. |
| # 23:24:49 | memleak | oh thats not terrible |
| # 23:25:19 | ovf | memleak: if you ever feel you need to spend more, there are pci-e dram cards... |
| # 23:26:09 | memleak | no no no no im good so far thanks :P |
| # 23:28:07 | ovf | ah! i just remembered i had an on-topic question |
| # 23:28:41 | memleak | :D |
| # 23:29:38 | ovf | i have some (production) code i need to compile for linux i686, x86_64, arm and (less of a requirement) windows i686 and x86_64 |
| # 23:29:58 | ovf | i'd also like a fairly recent version of gcc |
| # 23:30:37 | ovf | right now we use our distribution packages for gcc, which has an unpleasant side-effect that everyone has different versions |
| # 23:31:39 | ovf | i also want things relatively stable (which contradicts the "fairly recent" point), at least i don't want big regressions. |
| # 23:32:40 | ovf | what are my options? ctng offers me too many options to choose wisely, and it looks like commercial support for gcc for i686/x86_64 is mostly nonexistent except for maybe redhat |
| # 23:34:22 | y_morin | ovf: Go for latest of all: gcc-4.8.2, binutils-2.24, glibc-2.19. |
| # 23:35:59 | ovf | and also update to keep it latest? |
| # 23:38:38 | ovf | so basically you suggest i maintain my own ctng toolchain, right? this makes sense. |
| # 23:39:13 | y_morin | ovf: Well, you're in #crosstool-ng so expect we suggest you use crosstool-NG. ;-) |
| # 23:39:33 | ovf | i still wonder why there are no third-party options. if i wanted to do arm, i could pick linaro, or codesourcery, or ... but nothing for x86 |
| # 23:39:51 | ovf | it's not like i have some very specific requirements |
| # 23:39:52 | y_morin | ovf: But since you want newer tools, and don't want to depend on your distro or any other vendor, you don't have much choice. |
| # 23:41:07 | ovf | well, maybe i would have been content with a vendor, but i'm not quite sure how that relationship could have looked like. people say bad things about intel, for instance. |
| # 23:42:44 | ovf | speaking of glibc, i know this is probably bad practice, but if i really want, can i have say gcc 4.8 with glibc 2.12? |
| # 23:43:19 | ovf | since the code is often going to run in such environments. |
| # 23:44:48 | ovf | should i take crosstool-NG 1.19.0 or tip? |
| # 23:45:43 | y_morin | ovf: If you plan to compile stuff with a crosstol-NG toolchain, and run it in an existing environment, this is not supported. |
| # 23:46:07 | y_morin | ovf: crosstool-NG builds toolchain for you to then build a complete system from scratch. |
| # 23:46:18 | y_morin | ovf: ... not target an existing system. |
| # 23:46:41 | y_morin | ovf: That is best handled by using the tools provided sith your system. |
| # 23:46:47 | y_morin | s/sith/with/ |
| # 23:47:30 | ovf | that's what i feared: you're sending to me to go talk to redhat to use their ancient and dubiously patched toolchain |
| # 23:47:40 | ovf | and then go to canonical, rinse and repeat |
| # 23:48:32 | y_morin | ovf: Yes, basically. |
| # 23:48:32 | ovf | by "not supported", how big will be my problems? :-) |
| # 23:48:58 | y_morin | ovf: depends, hard to say. Maybe none. Maybe corner cases hard to debug. |
| # 23:49:31 | ovf | actually the only real issue with environment we had so far was the memcpy/memmove reality show |
| # 23:50:22 | ovf | we're still having it, kind of, since memmove performance is absolutely unpredictable across glibc versions |
| # 23:50:41 | ovf | thus i wanted to be able to choose a build-side glibc at will |