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# 20:53:45 y_morin sh4rm4: Hello! Yes, configure tries to find a GNU sed.
# 20:54:33 y_morin Hm. No in fact, I changed nothing in that respect...
# 20:54:49 y_morin Guma: Wht do you mean by "regular linux app development" ?
# 20:54:54 y_morin *What
# 20:57:24 Guma y_morin: not bare metal.
# 20:58:22 Guma I am running custom build of linux on my cortex-9a (0xc09) arch 7
# 20:59:03 Guma As you can tell I am total noob in arm and cross compilation. Any help greatly appriciated
# 21:00:07 y_morin Guma: Here are the samples available: http://code.bulix.org/k9966d-86539?raw
# 21:00:40 y_morin Guma: One of interest to you might be: arm-cortexa9_neon-linux-gnueabihf
# 21:00:53 y_morin Guma: use it with: ct-ng arm-cortexa9_neon-linux-gnueabihf; ct-ng build
# 21:01:17 Guma y_morin: does it support hard float?
# 21:01:29 Guma that is the most important to me
# 21:01:39 y_morin Guma: neon is hard-float.
# 21:02:02 y_morin Guma: And the tuple ends with -gnueabihf <- 'hf', for 'hard-float'
# 21:02:23 Guma so what is eabi. I was under this was for embedded (e) abi
# 21:02:43 Guma Some how this is what I got from google searches
# 21:02:54 y_morin Guma: EABI is the new ABI for ARM. The previous ABi has been deprecatred for basically forever now.
# 21:03:38 y_morin Guma: It indeed sttands for "Embedded ABI", but it is just a name. It is more like "Enhanced ABI"
# 21:04:42 Guma y_morin: Thank you
# 21:04:53 y_morin Guma: You're welcome.
# 21:07:59 sh4rm4 y_morin, does that mean i cant use ct-ng on my box without gnu sed ? (i use busybox sed)
# 21:08:21 y_morin sh4rm4: As long as sed understands -r -i -e, it should be OK.
# 21:09:18 sh4rm4 according to --help, it does
# 21:09:38 sh4rm4 wonder what the problem of Guma was (i cant imagine his ubuntu comes without gnu sed)
# 21:09:44 y_morin sh4rm4: Just run: ./configure --with-sed=/path/to/sed
# 21:10:41 Guma I am cetting cross compile on Mac 10.9.4 (guest). ubuntu is target
# 21:11:35 y_morin Guma: Bad. You can *not* target an existing system with crosstool-NG.
# 21:11:45 y_morin Guma: ct-ng is to generate a new system from scratch.
# 21:11:49 Guma sh4rm4: I did figure out my initial problem. Mac has old BSD not GNU tools. So homebrew helped to set this up
# 21:12:05 y_morin Guma: If you want to target an existing system, use the tools provided by that system.
# 21:12:26 sh4rm4 Guma, i see
# 21:12:45 Guma So how do I go building tool on Mac so I can develop on Mac and deploy on ubuntu/arm
# 21:13:03 sh4rm4 y_morin, you cant build linux crosscompilers on mac ?
# 21:13:25 y_morin sh4rm4: Not what I said.
# 21:13:40 sh4rm4 well i dont get the gist of what you just said
# 21:13:41 Guma Just for extra clarity I am not building firmware to talking to bare hardware.
# 21:13:44 y_morin sh4rm4: I said that if you want to target an _existing_ system, you need to use the tools from that system.
# 21:13:57 sh4rm4 well linux is an existing system
# 21:14:00 Guma sh4rm4: That is what I am trying to do. But I have hard time to build it
# 21:14:25 sh4rm4 but you can still build crosscompilers for it on other archs
# 21:14:43 sh4rm4 at least i know that it's possible to build musl-cross on macs, targetting linux
# 21:14:50 y_morin sh4rm4: You can build a compiler pretty much wherever you want (barring some limitations, of course)
# 21:15:32 y_morin sh4rm4: But if you want to compile for Ubuntu, you can't expect to build a cross-compiler with ct-ng, tht will generate working binaries on Ubuntu.
# 21:15:32 sh4rm4 so maybe i just dont get what you mean with "existing system"
# 21:15:40 sh4rm4 why not ?
# 21:15:46 y_morin sh4rm4: Because the ABI (or even the API) might differ.
# 21:15:47 sh4rm4 you can statically link
# 21:15:53 Guma sh4rm4: Ok let me got over this one more time. :)
# 21:16:31 sh4rm4 yes, there may be problems if you compile a glibc toolchain with latest glibc and your target has a decade old glibc version
# 21:16:35 y_morin sh4rm4: Static is bad, and you can;t really do static with glibc, now (because of the NSS stuff).
# 21:16:49 Guma I have http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-49013?ICID=knode-sabre-space#cfeatures this running Linux imx6qsabrelite 3.0.35-1.1 on it
# 21:16:55 sh4rm4 sh4rm4: Static is bad
# 21:16:57 sh4rm4 humm ?
# 21:16:58 y_morin sh4rm4: Exactly. Plus distros usually patch glibc heavily.
# 21:17:23 y_morin sh4rm4: Well, libraries dupliction.
# 21:17:23 sh4rm4 i compile all my stuff for different archs statically
# 21:17:30 sh4rm4 i dont want to get into the library hell
# 21:17:51 Guma Now I want to set up development system on my Mac 10.9.4 do I can edit/compile and remote debug to that board
# 21:17:52 y_morin sh4rm4: Well, if you have one or two binaries, that's OK. But if you have thousands, you don;t want to duplicate the libc in all of them.
# 21:18:17 sh4rm4 that much is true
# 21:18:42 sh4rm4 but i want at least my core utils static linked
# 21:19:04 sh4rm4 so my PC survives a failed libc update or mount situation
# 21:19:15 Guma All all my development will be C++/app server. No UI or any kind
# 21:19:22 y_morin Guma: It's not a problem of MacOS (well, I despise MacOS, but that's another issue). It;s the problem that the C library and compiler you have in Ubuntu are heavily patched, and there is avbsolutely *no* guarantee that the compiler and glibc built by ct-ng are compatible with the one on Ubuntu.
# 21:20:15 Guma so is there a way to "set it up" if I get the sources from where I build the system?
# 21:20:19 sh4rm4 oh ? i thought glibc introduced symbol versioning exactly to provide a stable ABI
# 21:20:43 y_morin sh4rm4: Not the problem. The problem are patches changing the API or ABI.
# 21:20:54 y_morin Doh, let me rephrase.
# 21:21:06 sh4rm4 ppl like intel, nvidia, opera, etc would be pretty pissed if their binaries won't work on ubuntu
# 21:21:45 y_morin sh4rm4: If a distro has apatch that /fixes/ the API or ABI, but we don;t, you're screwed.
# 21:21:55 y_morin sh4rm4: But those people do not cros-compile.
# 21:22:19 y_morin sh4rm4: Those people compile on a very old system to be sure it wil work on a recent system.
# 21:22:46 sh4rm4 yes; iirc with a glibc version that versions at 2.8
# 21:23:07 sh4rm4 i.e. printf@2.8 etc
# 21:23:51 sh4rm4 anyway, with static linking you can avoid all these issues :)
# 21:24:05 sh4rm4 unless you need DNS functionality from glibc that prevents it
# 21:24:19 sh4rm4 in which case you probably should use musl or uclibc
# 21:25:51 sh4rm4 altho i'm not sure if uclibc works with libstdc++, und uclibc++ seems to lag behind a lot (C++ folks usually want bleeding edge features)
# 21:26:51 Guma sh4rm4: yup I am intending doing static linking
# 21:27:38 sh4rm4 then i'd go for musl
# 21:28:42 Guma So is it safe to say if I get tool chain from my ubuntu repo and building it on Mac would work (assuming not using corosstool-NG) but manually? Is this the way to go?
# 21:28:49 sh4rm4 glibc makes horribly bloated static bins
# 21:28:58 sh4rm4 a C hello world is ca 600 KB
# 21:29:11 sh4rm4 and with C++ probably ~3MB
# 21:29:37 Guma If so how to build it manually?
# 21:29:51 sh4rm4 you need a crosscompiler
# 21:30:18 sh4rm4 ubuntu doesnt ship crosscompilers for mac users afaik
# 21:30:51 sh4rm4 so either build ct-ng or musl-cross
# 21:32:28 sh4rm4 however you may be able to get a precompiled linaro toolchain
# 21:33:39 sh4rm4 nope, they dont offer prebuilt glibc toolchains for macs
# 21:33:48 sh4rm4 only for baremetal
# 21:38:53 Guma So what is the worse case if there are not prebuilt packages? What is the the path that will work or is worth to try?
# 21:39:25 y_morin Guma: Virtual machine on the Mac, install Ubuntu in there, develop in Ubuntu in the VM, deploy to real target.
# 21:40:01 sh4rm4 building a musl-cross crosscompiler should do the job as well
# 21:40:10 Guma y. That is one idea
# 21:40:16 sh4rm4 as long as you use -static your binaries will work flawlessly
# 21:40:34 sh4rm4 otherwise you have to install the dynamic libs on the target
# 21:40:39 Guma not familiar with musl-cross. Let me google
# 21:42:19 Guma So for what I only need proper build toolchain
# 21:42:45 Guma is muls-cross is in apt-get?
# 21:43:01 y_morin Guma: Probably not.
# 21:43:23 sh4rm4 you need to build it on the mac
# 21:43:34 sh4rm4 so there's no point in using apt-get
# 21:44:59 sh4rm4 git clone https://github.com/GregorR/musl-cross
# 21:45:12 sh4rm4 uncomment the stuff about hardfloat in config.sh
# 21:45:20 sh4rm4 and run ./build.sh
# 21:45:23 sh4rm4 done!
# 21:46:15 sh4rm4 (oh and uncomment ARCH=arm in line 5)
# 22:22:43 Guma sh4rm4: So you talking . Instal VM/Ubuntu, clone git and build? musl-cross is only linux.. NOT mac. Just to be totally clear
# 22:25:33 sh4rm4 did i ever mention a VM ?
# 22:25:46 sh4rm4 i explicitly said that you need to build it on the mac
# 22:25:46 y_morin Guma: I did mention the VM. ;-)
# 22:26:10 sh4rm4 you build musl-cross ON the mac FOR linux
# 22:26:15 y_morin Guma: and it did *not* involve cross-copiling.
# 22:26:35 sh4rm4 in a vm you just use the native toolchain
# 22:26:45 sh4rm4 that ships with ubuntu
# 22:26:56 Guma Ok Will try this
# 22:26:58 y_morin sh4rm4: Which for his use-case is by far the best option he has.
# 22:27:09 sh4rm4 i dont think so
# 22:27:21 sh4rm4 transfering files back and forth to a VM is a PITA
# 22:27:50 y_morin sh4rm4: That, or get a reall development machine with Linux on it.
# 22:28:00 sh4rm4 also, it will be hard to get ubuntu arm working as a VM on a mac
# 22:28:17 sh4rm4 unless he cares to learn all the qemu flags
# 22:28:51 y_morin Well, embedded development using Ubuntu? Let me laugh... :-(
# 22:31:02 Guma sh4rm4: what do you mean transferring to and from VM? I think I would be building in VM and remote remote debug on Arm Board. When ready deploy
# 22:31:31 sh4rm4 you write your code on the mac i presume
# 22:31:49 sh4rm4 so whenever you want to compile it, you'd have to transfer it to the VM
# 22:32:06 sh4rm4 so that you can invoke the compiler there
# 22:32:50 sh4rm4 if you use a crosscompiler, you compile your stuff on the mac directly, and only need to transfer the *binaries* to the arm board
# 22:34:32 Guma sh4rm4: I am was intending to setup Eclipse with GNU ARM Plugin and then build/setup toolchain (all on Mec) So I could develop on it. Then remote debug to Arm/Linux and when done make package and push to local apt-get
# 22:34:51 Guma That is what I was trying to do. tool chain is the one that I am stuck with on Mac
# 22:35:22 sh4rm4 that's exactly what you can do with musl-cross
# 22:35:49 sh4rm4 and ct-ng, for the matter, although it makes it more complicated due to the static linking/symbol version issues of glibc
# 22:36:05 Guma :) Great. Totally lost in translation or maybe too tired (problem is on my end between monitor and keyboard)
# 22:37:32 Guma Also by the way I noticed after building crosstools-NG that trying to build the actual toolchain I get this error: Your file system in '/Users/oxoocoffee/Tools/toolchain/.build' is *not* case-sensitive!
# 22:38:04 Guma I was about to reinstall my Mac with case-sensitive file system
# 22:38:33 y_morin Guma: Look in docs/ there are tutorial on how to use it on Mac.
# 22:38:48 y_morin Guma: It explains how to make an image filesystem.
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